i actually think that's what's wrong with the entire obama administration, they have a lack of ambition for this country and what it can and should do. but i would also say if he believes that, that tim geithner believes that a public sector job is equivalent to a private sector job. it's not that public sector jobs aren't important. teachers are important, firemen are important, nurses are important. but a public sector job doesn't pay for itself. taxpayers pay for it. a public sector job doesn't create other jobs. a private sector job pays for itself and creates other jobs. i frankly found his statement shocking. both because of its lack of ambition and because of its misunderstanding of what actually drives growth. it's not public sector jobs. >> let me ask you this, under reagan's recovery, were we laying off teachers and firefighters? were state governments laying off teachers and firefighters at this rate? >> no. absolutely not. >> well, that's part of the recovery. our unemployment is where we are right now if republican governors weren't slashing teach eshs and slashing first re